Talk:Rudy Giuliani

Mugshot / request for edit

Giuliani's mugshot should be added to his wiki page.

I don't think it should be in the infobox right now soibangla (talk) 22:11, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

While I did plan on getting enough edits in to add his mugshot *somewhere*, I don't think it should be in the infobox. There should be a separate section added for the Georgia trial.

Perhaps it could be placed following the Attack on the Capitol section? CommissarDoggo (talk) 22:13, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Yup, that'd do it, thanks TheCelebrinator CommissarDoggo (talk) 22:22, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

You're most welcome! TheCelebrinator (talk) 22:25, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The definitively reliable source of the mugshot compliant with WP:MUG can be obtained through the second item on the list at https://fcsoga.org/press-releases/ "Media Access to the Fulton County Jail on Rice Street & Booking Photo Requests – Aug 21, 2023". You'll need to print, sign and submit the affirmation. Once that form submission has been approved, then you'll be able to get all the defendants' mugshots. Only one Wikipedia user will need to do it. I'd do it myself, but at the moment I don't have access to a printer to be able to print, sign and submit the form. Art Smart ^Chart/Heart 02:13, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

I submitted the Affirmation form and received the following reply: Thank you for contacting Fulton County Sheriff's Office Communications. We have received your message and will review your inquiry. Someone will respond as soon as possible." Once I get the mugshot, I'll upload it to Wikimedia so it can be used in this article. Art Smart ^Chart/Heart 14:32, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

The Fulton County Sheriff's Office e-mailed not just Rudy Giuliani's booking photo that I requested, but she e-mailed me all of the booking photos for defendants processed so far (Cathleen Latham, David Shafer, Floyd Harrison, Jenna Ellis, John Eastman, Kenneth Chesebro, Mark Meadows, Ray Smith, Rudolph Giuliani, Scott Hall and Sidney Powell). Here's the e-mail: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FY-UbTJgsrbzKNUEXbrxpROQgX3glJOx/view?usp=sharing . I uploaded all of them to Wikimedia Commons. I only added Giuliani's booking photo to this article. Art Smart ^{Art Smart Chart/Heart 21:19, 24 August 2023 (UTC)}

reason for his license suspension

This is nitpicky but it matters I think. The article reads, "In June 2021 Giuliani had his license to practice law suspended in the state of New York, pending an investigation related to the disputed 2020 presidential election"

This sentence lacks clarity at best and is misleading (unintentionally no doubt) at worst. First his license was suspended for his role in the attempt to discredit the 2020 presidential election in Trump's favor. Furthermore, the 2020 election is not in dispute by any credible people or evidence. Therefore Wikipedia describing the 2020 election as a "disputed presidential election" gives credence to the false claims made about that election. You might consider the following"

"In June 2021 Giuliani had his license to practice law suspended in the state of New York, pending an investigation related to his effort to dispute the results of the 2020 presidential election"

No doubt one of you could do much better but I hope you see what I'm getting at. And I realize further down in the article this is dealt with in good detail, but this sentence could vastly be improved for clarity. 2603:8081:8700:687D:FD9A:13F8:B884:72B6 (talk) 20:00, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

That's a reasonable idea -- I've adopted it. Nomoskedasticity (talk) 20:08, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Former President Trumps First Impeachment

The sentence should not stop there, although the link is very helpful, it should stay first impeachment trial. Righttoknowtruth (talk) 17:52, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Infobox image

I get that Giuliani's mugshot has been widely reported on in notable sources but is it really the most appropriate photo to use for the infobox? The subject hasn't yet been convicted; only indicted, so using a police mugshot to represent the subject doesn't seem to square up with the idea of neutrality and pressuming innocence until proven guilty. TheCelebrinator (talk) 22:12, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The mugshot is much more recent than the current infobox image, which is years out of date. WP:MUGSHOT states that a top-quality reliable source with a widely acknowledged reputation for fact-checking and accuracy that links the photograph to the specific incident ... in question must be cited. Since several reliable sources link the photograph to the specific incident, I believe it should be included in the infobox as a recent image of Giuliani widely distributed in reliable sources. CJ-Moki (talk) 22:17, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

It's important to have a photo for the infobox that wouldn't contradict our policy of maintaining neutrality. I have linked the mugshot in the appropriate section for the article, but to have it for the inbox would imply a conviction or otherwise prejudice readers into thinking the subject committed a crime. That's for the courts to decide, not us.

P.S. 2019 isn't what I'd consider "out-of-date". Many other articles use infobox photos far older than that. TheCelebrinator (talk) 22:23, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Agreed - regardless of any of our personal views, setting the mugshot as the infobox photo - mere hours after the subject's arrest, no less - is inappropriate for this encylcopedia. Looks like the image has been deleted anyway, but I wouldn't be surprised if someone else uploads another one so someone might want to investigate the copyright status of mugshots from Fulton County... Funcrunch (talk) 23:29, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

Answering my own question: Per the file deletion log edit summary on Commons, "Works of the State of Georgia (and subdivisions) are not in the public domain, see COM:US#US_States" Funcrunch (talk) 23:45, 23 August 2023 (UTC)

The affirmation form at https://fcsoga.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/08/FCSO-Letter-of-Affirmation-Booking-Photos-8.21.23.pdf reads in part, "Such booking photographs may be broadcast, published, and/or posted to a website in the normal course of business." Access to that form is referenced in the second row of https://fcsoga.org/press-releases/ . Art Smart ^Chart/Heart 10:38, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

As much as it pains me, no, we're not putting the mugshot in the infobox. That would be a massive violation of neutrality. WP:MUGSHOT also states Images of living persons should not be used out of context to present a person in a false or disparaging light. This is particularly important for police booking photographs (mugshots). While Giuliani's indictment is definitely a notable event in his life, Mr. RICO's judicial and political career spans several decades, and selectively choosing a mugshot in the infobox instead of a more neutral picture would strike a WP:FALSEBALANCE.

Also, not much of his face has melted since 2019 and he's pretty recognizable in the current photograph, so there isn't an immediate need to change it. Chaotic Enby (talk) 19:45, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

Shouldnt the mug shot be put where the article describes his Georgia case? 2603:8081:8700:687D:E458:9326:A1DD:FFF8 (talk) 20:03, 24 August 2023 (UTC)